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Post by shenlong on Sept 4, 2016 20:53:35 GMT
That's true and I'm not saying Baki is just like Yujiro either. I wouldn't say it's in the blood, although there might be some truth in that. Yuichiro didn't seem like a bloodthirsty selfish asshole, but maybe he's restraining himself. Anyway, besides the blood thing, I'm more thinking about everything Yujiro has ever done to Baki in order to groom him into a suitable opponent. He's never been a loving father to him, beat him up numerous times to toughen him up, murdered his mother in front of him to give him more drive to get stronger, killed the ape to fuck with him, arrived and wrecked Hanayama after he got beat by Baki and generally ensured that Baki never lived in safe environment. Baki is a decent person compared to his dad, but years and years of abuse and the obsession to become stronger to surpass him can't have left him without some emotional scars.
The obsession aspect is important. I remember Baki saying he didn't care about being the strongest in the world, and that he'd be fine being the second weakest being in the world as long as he was stronger than his father. Thing is, Yujiro is the strongest creature, so no matter what Baki trains for, no matter who he learns from, what he has to look up to as the thing to reach is his father. He didn't have a choice but to become more like him. To Baki, Yujiro is the definition of strong so to become stronger has to entail becoming more Yujiro one way or another. In the big fight they had at the end of Son of Ogre, it's when he started fighting like Yujiro that he actually pushed him. His hobby of just fistfighting with opponents without using techniques or strategies is also pretty much the ideal of strength for Yujiro and how he ends up fighting against Kaku Kaio. Baki has to be able to do at least that to measure up to his father and beat him for good.
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Post by ungora on Sept 4, 2016 21:47:42 GMT
I remember Baki mentionning in the past series that his fight with his father would be the last fight he would ever do as he wasn't that interested in the "neverending fight" ideal.
And i think that's another hint of how Baki really changed, because at the very beginning of Baki Dou, he's still fighting in the arena and is obviously so addicted to it that the lack of challenge of those fights is striking him bad enough for him to do silly stunts to wake his adrenalin.
So i agree, Yujiro through all those years of insane abuse managed to change his son into the same kind of fight obsessed guy he is, he just only failed to make him the same type of bloodthirsty monster as himself fortunately for Baki.
Maybe as Yujiro praised her, probably Kozue is not stranger to Baki keeping his mind despite all, as Yujiro never had someone like her, Baki's mother was basically worshipping Yujiro as a deity in her insane craving for him.
Kozue is much more normal in her mind and keep Baki grounded in his own humanity.
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Post by kenaih on Sept 4, 2016 22:55:31 GMT
I think that's a different case, the Night Ape didn't choose to fight Yujiro, he was murdered for nothing... well, not for nothing... he was murdered so that the Ogre could show Baki the head and watch his reaction while he badly laughed at him. In Retsu's case... it was his decision to fight and was prepared to die... he died as a warrior, not as the victim of some freak who wanted to kill him just to mock his son. As for Pickle... it was his choice too, he even opted to fast so that he could enjoy more his 'food' target. Now that he has lost his will to keep fighting, it would be lame of Baki not to interfere (but our favorite troll just got earlier the party already). I hear what you're saying, but I got the impression Pickle didn't want to fight Musashi until he was forced to. Hear me out. When we first saw Pickle in Baki Dou, he was minding his own business and eating alligators in the sewers. Kinda funny and silly, yeah? Sounds perfect for our caveman adapting in the new world. However, once Musashi saw the news about Pickle, he cut the television in half, and bullied Tokugawa into setting up a meeting with him. Musashi was clearly fascinated by the primal man and wanted a duel, to test his strength. Their introduction consisted of Musashi taunting him in the lab, after Pickle was literally drugged and dragged away from his new home. The blame goes to all the scientists and Tokugawa as well, who participated in "kidnapping" Pickle. But it's kinda fucked up when you think about it. Can you really say that Pickle "wanted" that fight? Musashi was the aggressor, not unlike Yujiro in the past. Both seek genuinely strong opponents. I'll give you Retsu, though. The guy was 100% warrior, and was willing to give up his life before losing his sense of pride and honor as a martial artist. Nevertheless, Baki's lack of reaction is surprising to me. Maybe there will be a big twist, and Baki will step into the ring after Motobe gets dunked on. Point taken. Pickle didn't ask for that fight, I agree, even though he got interested on it later (the reason he fasted) he didn't really ask for any of this shit. Nevertheless, Musashi is just treating him as a freak he can toy with with no respect at all. Maybe because he is a prehistoric caveman he doesn't consider him a human but an animal. |
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Post by dannythm on Sept 5, 2016 13:53:03 GMT
Baki is growing more and more narcissistic as the series advances, but I guess that's a given when you are the second strongest person on earth, Musashi lowered his attitude fo a while, but we'll see if this develops into something. By the way, here's the korean 124 blog.yuncomics.com/archives/1764567 there's an awful lot of talking, and being bettween gouki and memetobe we can guess it will be really interesting. Now I wonder why isn't Yujiro among the public... or maybe he is? |
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Post by shenlong on Sept 5, 2016 14:04:40 GMT
Maybe he's sulking that Motobe's fighting Musashi because he's still mad at him.
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Post by jedah on Sept 5, 2016 17:42:11 GMT
Point taken. Pickle didn't ask for that fight, I agree, even though he got interested on it later (the reason he fasted) he didn't really ask for any of this shit. Nevertheless, Musashi is just treating him as a freak he can toy with with no respect at all. Maybe because he is a prehistoric caveman he doesn't consider him a human but an animal. I think you're absolutely right that Musashi views Pickle more as an animal than a human being. Musashi even recalled when he beheaded a Night Ape during his fight with Pickle, which had the reputation of being a vicious beast. It was Baki who saw the "human" side of Yasha-Zaru and Pickle. Both characters were feared and misunderstood before he created a connection with them. To me, that's evidence of good writing by Itagaki, and creates a nice contrast with his dad Yujiro, who is an unrelenting asshole. You need that yin and yang balance, to show both sides of the moral compass. However, based on the comments you guys have been posting (which I appreciate reading), it sounds like the general consensus is that Baki has become more nihilistic and jaded as the series has progressed. I don't necessarily disagree with that idea, it's just unfortunate. One of the most interesting things about the manga to me has always been the contrast between the "Chaotically Evil" Yujiro and his "Chaotically Neutral" son, Baki. Er... I almost labeled Baki as Lawful, but he kidnapped the president... Edit:Thanks for the latest chapter. It was kinda strange when Shibukawa was smiling so devilishly as he watched Motobe take a bath. Motobe is dad bod #1. "Here's looking at you, kid."Attachments:
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Post by onepenguin0 on Sept 5, 2016 19:33:10 GMT
It's not fair. They're selling Baki shower curtains now, but I need a Motobe one.  |
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Post by dannythm on Sept 7, 2016 19:40:50 GMT
It's not fair. They're selling Baki shower curtains now, but I need a Motobe one. A shower curtain? Why not a Dakimakura? |
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Post by onepenguin0 on Sept 7, 2016 22:50:39 GMT
It's not fair. They're selling Baki shower curtains now, but I need a Motobe one. A shower curtain? Why not a Dakimakura? even better motobe can protect me at night |
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Post by jedah on Sept 8, 2016 16:30:45 GMT
How much fun is it gonna be when either Hilary or Trump is brought into Baki Dou? With Obama's exit, the new president is gonna have to swear allegiance to Yujiro, and put their hand on the bible, all that jazz. At this rate, Musashi might join the club of "stronger than nuclear weapons," too. Just imagine Musashi meeting Donald Trump. How could Itagaki resist the temptation to draw that? In the past, he loved picking on George W., and he's not shy about his political beliefs..
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Post by onepenguin0 on Sept 9, 2016 7:09:51 GMT
Itagaki mocked Obama too. I think more than Bush, actually. Obama had that whole "betrayal of the cross" sequence.
Pragmatically though, I don't think we'll even see a US president again in the manga unless they're in a brief cameo shot. Dou is decidedly Japan-themed; I can't really see the characters going anywhere else any time soon.
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Post by shenlong on Sept 9, 2016 8:34:13 GMT
That's not how I saw it.
Bush was shown as kind of a bumbling idiot whose sole purpose in life was to be a doormat for Yujiro and Baki.
Obama actually kind of stood up to Yujiro about a potential fight with Baki, and I got the impression Yujiro was kind of praising him that he let go of the cross thing and spoke frankly for himself instead of giving him some vague political statements.
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Post by jedah on Sept 10, 2016 14:46:48 GMT
That's not how I saw it. Bush was shown as kind of a bumbling idiot whose sole purpose in life was to be a doormat for Yujiro and Baki. Obama actually kind of stood up to Yujiro about a potential fight with Baki, and I got the impression Yujiro was kind of praising him that he let go of the cross thing and spoke frankly for himself instead of giving him some vague political statements. Agreed. Obama stood up to Yujiro more than Bush, but ultimately, he was just another government puppet under Yujiro's control. So, I wonder if Musashi will strike up a similar deal with Japanese politicians? Apparently, those in the 1% category of superhuman fighters can shake down everybody. Onepenguin may be correct that the current series is Japan-focused, but I thought it would be hilarious to see Itagaki illustrate a panicky Donald Trump trying to nervously shake hands with a disgusted Yujiro. Man, Itagaki could have so much fun with those two characters. For one chapter, Yujiro could go on an all-expenses paid trip to Trump's casino. Trump could become Yujiro's personal attendant and bellhop, wearing the ridiculous outfit and hat. Then, Trump could serve drinks with little umbrellas as Yujiro plays Blackjack, or he could act as a human-footstool if Yujiro's legs get tired. And of course, Yujiro would be blowing cigar smoke in Trump's face the whole time, just for fun. Or maybe Yujiro would sleep with Ivanka, just to really piss him off. I'm not suggesting non-consensual sex, either. Ivanka would totally bone Yujiro willingly. I vote for less Motobe, and more mocking of dumb American politicians. Musashi, can you please kill Motobe already so we can get back to what's really important? |
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Post by onepenguin0 on Sept 11, 2016 6:34:54 GMT
[finger snap] I got it why don't we just build a wall around the US to keep out the yuujiro an imaginary wall of course, so he can't break it with his hands and fists or face that way, the United States would be safe from him on a more pragmatic note, Trump is the type to sue over that kind of stuff, so I doubt Itagaki/editor would wanna risk anything sure, he probably wouldn't *win*, but it'd be a massive cash drain hm build a wall around Japan to keep out the Trumby www.youtube.com/watch?v=buiv3_uVHSA |
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Post by dannythm on Sept 12, 2016 15:05:36 GMT
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