Kengan Asura

[shenlong]

Dec 21, 2022 17:12:33 GMT ungora said:

Ah the classic "i know your moves so you can't beat me anymore" ...
Hmm, yeah i know manga trope, but honestly that always meant nothing.

It's not because one have seen and know how to do or how to guard against a straight direct punch or an uppercut that the opponent will not be able to just knock you out with a direct straight punch or an uppercut...

It happens a lot in boxing despite every boxers are expert in dealing or defending with direct straight punch and uppercuts.

Normally, I'd agree, but I think it hits pretty well in this case. Koga's point towards Ryuki is that while he's learned new tricks and techniques, he hasn't really trained to integrate them into a fully functioning system. Normally, that assertion could be doubtful, but I think it tracks very well with Ryuki's relationship with martial arts. Ryuki was raised as an assassin first and foremost. During the whole manga, he's been out of his element. When Ryuki learns a new technique, he's only asking himself "How can I use it to kill a target?". He views fighting techniques as something you only need to use once. He's never really solved the problem of how to perform in an environment where the person you beat will still be alive afterwards, and where there's an audience to analyse his moves, which originally revolves primarily on being obscure and unexpected.

To his credit, he has managed to sidestep it, and he's even managed to beat Adam by leveraging the element of surprise and using his tricks at the right moment, but Koga is a bad matchup for him, right now. He's seen the gaoh techniques several times, and he knows Ryuki better than almost anyone else. You could argue the reverse is true, but I think that's where the difference in training is relevant. Koga's been working on polishing his techniques and integrate them in a system meant for competitive fighting, so he's become a more complete competitive fighter. Ryuki might know how he fights, but like you say about boxers, Koga's style is at a really high level right now, so just knowing his moves doesn't mean he can counter them.

And sure, having seen the rakshasa's palm doesn't make Koga impervious to it, but because he knows Ryuki's style and because Ryuki's style hasn't really grown, he can get a feel of how and when he'll use it, and I think that's the critical, difference here. Ryuki's techniques are powerful, but they don't flow into each other to make them harder to read. It's just not how Ryuki learned to fight.

[dannythm]

Dec 22, 2022 14:01:26 GMT shenlong said:

Dec 21, 2022 17:12:33 GMT ungora said:

Ah the classic "i know your moves so you can't beat me anymore" ...
Hmm, yeah i know manga trope, but honestly that always meant nothing.

It's not because one have seen and know how to do or how to guard against a straight direct punch or an uppercut that the opponent will not be able to just knock you out with a direct straight punch or an uppercut...

It happens a lot in boxing despite every boxers are expert in dealing or defending with direct straight punch and uppercuts.

Normally, I'd agree, but I think it hits pretty well in this case. Koga's point towards Ryuki is that while he's learned new tricks and techniques, he hasn't really trained to integrate them into a fully functioning system. Normally, that assertion could be doubtful, but I think it tracks very well with Ryuki's relationship with martial arts. Ryuki was raised as an assassin first and foremost. During the whole manga, he's been out of his element. When Ryuki learns a new technique, he's only asking himself "How can I use it to kill a target?". He views fighting techniques as something you only need to use once. He's never really solved the problem of how to perform in an environment where the person you beat will still be alive afterwards, and where there's an audience to analyse his moves, which originally revolves primarily on being obscure and unexpected.

To his credit, he has managed to sidestep it, and he's even managed to beat Adam by leveraging the element of surprise and using his tricks at the right moment, but Koga is a bad matchup for him, right now. He's seen the gaoh techniques several times, and he knows Ryuki better than almost anyone else. You could argue the reverse is true, but I think that's where the difference in training is relevant. Koga's been working on polishing his techniques and integrate them in a system meant for competitive fighting, so he's become a more complete competitive fighter. Ryuki might know how he fights, but like you say about boxers, Koga's style is at a really high level right now, so just knowing his moves doesn't mean he can counter them.

And sure, having seen the rakshasa's palm doesn't make Koga impervious to it, but because he knows Ryuki's style and because Ryuki's style hasn't really grown, he can get a feel of how and when he'll use it, and I think that's the critical, difference here. Ryuki's techniques are powerful, but they don't flow into each other to make them harder to read. It's just not how Ryuki learned to fight.

Very good analysis, and precisely the way Koga has been training has been made a "parallel" with Rihito somehow, with how he came to the integration of all his techniques.

[ungora]

Very good points, Ryuki work as an assassin is indeed a problem in regular fights in which you must not kill your opponent, now that i think about it, that was the same problem that tall guy with a mask had in the Purgatory tournament.

There's also the fact i forgot about Koga that is supposed to have that incredible attention to details that allow him to see things better than the usual guy.

[ungora]

Those "indestructible" and "armor clad" muscle hardening, all at the same time of doing so many fast moves and etc.. seems like an excellent way to tear your muscles.
Anyways, i found this a nice chapter and it looks like we're close to the end of the match now as on that chapter it looks like both fighters are throwing their all, and that last panel that seems to show Koga getting Ruyki flying backward also look like to be a classic red herring, so who know who's coming on top.

[shenlong]

Looks like Koga's got this. Somehow, I don't think the end of this chapter is a fakeout. Could be wrong, but I don't think. It's probably not the finishing blow, though. Ryuki can probably get a bit more desperate before he loses. All in all, it wasn't the bestest fight, but I think the drama makes up for what it lacks in pure fighting goodness. I think while Ashura was good at showing an ensemble cast, most characters' arcs from back then are done and they feel kinda like guest stars, and Omega is at its best when focusing on Koga and Ryuki.

[dannythm]

Any time anyone goes "limp" I find it extremelly funny for some reason.

I agree this looks like the end of the fight, it will be interesting to see Lihito vs Koga now that both of them are so damaged.

[ungora]

And we have a winner, that was a good satisfying end to that match.

Wonder what's next for the characters, hmm it's getting cold.

[dannythm]

No surprises here but the amount of damage on the fighters, now I wonder... will just kicks be enough to defeat Lihito?

Jan 4, 2023 15:57:22 GMT ungora said:

And we have a winner, that was a good satisfying end to that match.

Wonder what's next for the characters, hmm it's getting cold.

I guess we shall see... how cold can it get.

[shenlong]

Yeah, Koga's probably forfeiting the finals, to be honest. He's hardcore, but not that hardcore. Maybe I'll be surprised, who knows... but Koga vs Rihito holds very little story relevance, so it'd make sense for the tournament to end here so we can get to the next KAT quicker (unless it was for Ryuki to spectate the fight and be impressed by Koga).

Anyway, I'm mostly wondering what's gonna happen with Ryuki, now. I hope he manages to chill out and come down from his sociopathic streak a little because man, that kid has suffered enough already. Is getting beaten down gonna be enough, though ?

[shenlong]

So he is that hardcore, gotta respect the man, not sure what he'll be able to do, though, but he might give Rihito a scare or two.

[ungora]

Rihito at least has the advantage of having a longer rest before that match.
Tough i'm not sure the author care much about that.

[shenlong]

Rihito has pretty much every advantage imaginable. His first fight was relatively easy, and while his second fight was hard fought, he didn't suffer any significant injury. Koga just fought and he wrecked both his hands by punching into Ryuki's indestructible abdomen, and he has been pushing his body very hard during both fights by using the niko techniques. Plus, and to be fair, I don't know how much of a factor that will be, Rihito will be a different fighter now, than he was before he fought Saw Paing.

[ungora]

I think Rihito will win this, in term of experience , being a top Kengan fighter + his recent "evolution" he went through during the fight with Saw Paing, he should be very noticably above Koga in every ways.
Especially as Koga seems indeed more damaged from the start after his previous fight.

Though i guess for manga purpose Koga will still put a very good fight even in defeat, as honestly it would be too unbelievable for him to win in those conditions, plot armor or not.

I have been re-reading some of the past fights and found that similarly to Baki i enjoyed them much more by reading the complete fights in one sitting than when i was only reading one chapter a week/month.
By example Ohma vs Rolon that i found only average when i was reading it only as chapters came, felt much much better in on sitting and rather great.

[dannythm]

The first chapter with a Koga fight on this tournament was named "the beguining of the legeng" or something like that right? That makes me think Koga will win this.

Lihito might be better initially, but I think Koga will "snap" as well during the fight and get to another level.

Maybe it will end in a draw?

[ungora]

I was expecting that fight going for a few chapters, but it looks like the author was more eager in making some development for the story, so we're now going to get some trip to the "inside".